DC / DCC difference

[AustralianLMS]

Returning after many years ......

Today I purchased my track for a small industrial OO layout. (300 x 800mm)

And I have one loco .. Thats it. No wagons or any thing.

My question is, should I wire this small layout differently for DCC compared to DC? I do not have a transformer / controller at all yet either.

Oh and the track is Peco 75 with electrofrog. Metal and insulated rail joiners on the way as well.

[Tricky Dicky]

You really need to decide how much you want to do on the layout in the future. As it stands now it seems pointless to go DCC if you only intend to have one loco on the layout unless you want sound but even that can be implemented of a fashion in DC.

If you intend more locos then sticking with DC will require isolating sections where other locos can be parked or implement Cab Control (see Brian's website: https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/ for a full explanation) On a layout that size I think you will struggle to control more than one loco so cab control may also be OTT.

Going DCC will enable you to run multiple locos with no need for isolating sections and you can implement sound easily.

Converting a DC layout to DCC can be as simple as switching all the isolating sections on so the whole layout is powered however the ideal way to wire a DCC layout is to use a bus pair of wires from which short connecting wires - droppers- are connected to each section of rail so you are not reliant on fish plates to carry the current round the layout, again see Brian's website for more details. There is no reason why a bus pair cannot be implemented on a DC layout but you will still need isolating sections if you are operating more than one loco.

If you can provide more information about the future of the layout then people will be able to give more detailed advice on how to proceed.

Richard

[AustralianLMS]

Thank Tricky Dicky ...... You answered my question perfectly. I will be isolating some sections anyway so this will work fine.

(And I could get another loco at the drop of a hat.)

I had watched the Brian Lambert video before. I need to book mark it so I don't loose it again.

Thanks again.

[Mountain Goat]

If you are considering DCC then an idea is to buy a trainset that has a DCC loco that you like. Tht way you have a simple DCC controller and a DCC loco to use.
You don't need DCC as DC will work perfectly well. DCC is almost pointless for a single locomotive. Two or more locomotives and it is up to you. DCC is usually more expensive but gives the option of the luxury of sound and lights. You can use lights on DC though if powered through the track (One can use batteries if one is clever) the light brightness will go up or down according to the speed of the loco.
Apart from the isolating sections and track sections DC is generally a simpler approach and therefore cheaper and easier to deal with any issues.
Both options are good. It is more down to if you want to pay extra and get a little extra luxury of lights and if budget allows, sound, or keep things simple and opt for DC (Which has no programming of decoders and one does not need to try to fit the decoders etc).
Regarding DC or DCC wiring. This all depends on what you are trying to do with either system as both can under certain cercumstances be very simple or complex as the circumstances and requirements of the layout owner like to make them. With either, the larger the layout and the more complex the track plan becomes, the more wiring one has to do. While large complex layouts can simplify wiring with DCC they usually run a large collection of locos and therefore the costs accumilate higher as every loco needs a decoder, not to mention the need for extra boosters to enable the layout to function correctly. Small DCC layouts don't usually need extra boosters.
So generally speaking, DC is simpler and cheaper but does require a little more wiring back to switches etc, while DCC offers some extra luxury and one can run one loco right up to another without the need for an isolating section in the track. (A few carefully places isolating sections on DC and one can get ones layout running in such a way that it can be hard to tell that it is not DCC as in reality, two locomotives only ever need to meet at one or two locations on a layout).
Simplified, if we take an average sized layout, the basic idea to wire DC is to divide the layout into sections so that one only provides track power to the section(s) one needs to run the loco, where as with DCC the aim is to have the whole layout powered. These are the main differences between wiring for DC or DCC.

[AustralianLMS]

Thanks Mountain goat,

I guess if I can make use of a DC controller later it will be a no brainer. Use the DC for now and move it to building lights and point motors later. I am assuming that these controllers / transformers have extra out lets like my old clipper from years ago.

If the DC controller will be of no use later I am better to just bite the bullet and get the right thing from the start.

[Steve M]

I guess if I can make use of a DC controller later it will be a no brainer. Use the DC for now and move it to building lights and point motors later. I am assuming that these controllers / transformers have extra out lets like my old clipper from years ago.

The DC controller supplied with most sets is very basic and doesn't have additional outlets for accessories. It so has limited output which may, depending on lights used, limit its use.
Best advice imho to anyone starting out is to go straight to DCC as PSUs for accessories are available very inexpensively online.

[Tricky Dicky]

I am normally an advocate of DCC especially for someone starting up but in this instance I cannot see any massive advantage of going DCC. The OP has said he wants to create an industrial layout on an 800mm X 300mm baseboard. He is talking about a layout of 4/5 Loco lengths depending on types of loco, he is never going to be able control 2 locos moving at the same time in that space. The only real pro's for the OP going DCC is being able to pull up anywhere on the layout to another loco and sound.

The OP needs to give a bit more detail perhaps even a rough layout diagram and some indication of how the layout will operate and how many locos he intends to have on the layout. It's not cheap going DCC so unless he has some compelling reason such as sound he would be wise to see if he can achieve what he requires with DC first.

Richard

[Mountain Goat]

Thanks Mountain goat,

I guess if I can make use of a DC controller later it will be a no brainer. Use the DC for now and move it to building lights and point motors later. I am assuming that these controllers / transformers have extra out lets like my old clipper from years ago.

If the DC controller will be of no use later I am better to just bite the bullet and get the right thing from the start.

Well, even if you go all out DCC then a DC controller to test locos prior to fitting decoders is a very good plan.

[AustralianLMS]

Thanks guys for your input,

DC I think will be my choice, even if only for the short term and for this small layout. If by chance I do want to run two locos I can use isolated track sections to control each loco. Having two moving locos at once on such a small layout would be too difficult anyway.

This brings be to my next question. What do you call the power supply to operate building lights, point motors, turntables etc? I have searched for this type of power supply unit but without success. Everything seems to cover DC vs DCC and not the accessory power supply. In my day this was 12 volt, is it still the same?

I am very much inspired by Chris Nevard's layouts. The track is ordered and on its way, and the base board is here with scribbles on it. I have down loaded a couple of buildings. So I am making a start.

I will move the thread to "members layouts" when I have something decent to show.

That is a great resource you have made Brian, I have referenced it before. It has reminded me of all sorts of things that I knew but have forgotten over the years.

[Tricky Dicky]

Guessing from your comments suggests that back in the day layout lighting was grain of wheat or grain of rice lights. These as you say are normally 12V and both are still widely available so a 12V AC or DC PSU will suffice.

The trend these days is to use LEDs, these are current driven light emitters and require a current limiting resistor to control the current by setting the voltage re: Ohm's Law. Because voltages are quite low ranging from 2V to 3.5V depending on colour, likewise currents ranging from 2mA to 35mA this allows a greater range of PSU voltages you just need to calculate the appropriate current limiting resistors. Before you groan at the thought of learning Ohm's Law in school there are plenty of online calculators that will do the hard work for you

There is also more choice in point motors. The traditional solenoid type are still widely available and widely used in addition we now have stall motors and servos. Solenoids need a 16V AC supply or in the region of 22-24V DC supply. Some of the stall motors such as the basic Cobalts by DCC Concepts require a 9V supply. Servos require 6V supplies. A little research of manufacturers specifications will point you in the right direction.

As for driving turntables possibilities range from simple DC motors to stepper motors.

Richard