Model Railway Forum

I have only ever used DC control.

For a new layout I am being told that the cost of chipping 200 locos, that I have to run 5 different eras on a model (say 50/50 steam /diesel and of those 50/50 are with/without sockets) is less than the cost of a control panel with mimic track diagrams for a 12ft x8ft 3 track round and round layout with 60+ points, 30 isolated sections, and 15 signals.

Any advice welcome, also any thoughts on types of equipment, and traps for the unwary?

Many Thanks

Paul

Decent quality decoders will set you back £15-20 each so that's £3-4,000 just for decoders. Then you'll need a DCC system to go with that - perhaps £400-500 for a layout of that size. And this assumes that your points are not going to be DCC-managed (managing points via DCC is optional) so you will still need a mimic panel. You may save a lot of wiring for sectional switches but for a large DCC system you will still need plenty of track feeds - far more than for DC.

You go DCC for the benefits it brings, not to save money. So up to you to decide whether DCC is for you or not.

RFS wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:33 pm Decent quality decoders will set you back £15-20 each so that's £3-4,000 just for decoders.

Then there are the fitting charges if you are considering outsourcing this.

RFS wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:33 pmSo up to you to decide whether DCC is for you or not.

I have only used DCC since retiring to the hobby and I love it, but at that level of expenditure ......

R

For starters with little or no stock most would say go DCC, having a large established stock is the killer as RFS pointed out the cost of DCCing all those locos runs into thousands.

As for DCCing points and signals a lot depends on your DCC system mine is Lenz 100 which many would agree is bulletproof as far as running locos. However, when it comes to accessories it is a PITA only from the point of view of how many button presses you have to make compared to a flick of a switch or touch of a probe on a mimic board. I would only go to the expense of using accessory decoders if you were contemplating computer control.

Richard

Running more then 6 locos on Dcc at any one time is a art of its own how ever big the layout is. As the saying goes try walking first before running.

No need to convert them all in one go, just do a few you use most often and do others as and when. Just make sure you never put an unconverted loco on a DCC layout as it will inevitably burn out the motor.
Be aware also that older locos may be more troublesome to convert than more recently made ones and require a decoder that will handle a higher current.

Due to the expenditure and the work involved in such a conversion, I would not really consider it unless you regularly have friends along where your layout forms more of a club type of operation, as DCC can benefit in this way. However, the time it will take to convert where not all locos would be practical to convert, and the time to program each loco etc that a well planned DC layout makes far more sense.
Yes, one can have half a layout running on DCC and the other half DC, but to be honest, for this layout I would stay with DC and invest my time in getting the best out of DC as I could. A well planned DC layout can be operated in such a way that if it were not for lights and sound, one would find difficulty by watching it to work out if it was DCC or DC, as well planned isolation gaps and track sections can make up for it.
Most track sections will only on very rare occasions have more then one loco operating on it in DCC, and that usually does not follow prototype practice. For the few occasions in DC where this would happen (E.g. when one loco backs onto another for a double headed service, or a dead end station where one loco bringing a train in will be trapped at one end where a second loco will then go to the other end to continue the service) they can simply be done via an isolated section.
I never forget when DCC first was pushed by the RTR brands that I saw an over simplified two wire DCC layout next to a well over complicated DC layout which wasn't at all a fair comparison as no way would the DC layout need three quarters of the isolating sections the diagram showed and the DCC would need more then just the two wires and a few point clips.

Going back to the origional question. If you really like DCC go for it, but it will be a lengthy and costly conversion due to all the locos you have. (Unless you want automatic control, I would use conventional tag and probe method to control points. Much cheaper and actually easier to use unless one wants DCC with a computer).

Tricky Dicky wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:34 pm For starters with little or no stock most would say go DCC, having a large established stock is the killer as RFS pointed out the cost of DCCing all those locos runs into thousands.

As for DCCing points and signals a lot depends on your DCC system mine is Lenz 100 which many would agree is bulletproof as far as running locos. However, when it comes to accessories it is a PITA only from the point of view of how many button presses you have to make compared to a flick of a switch or touch of a probe on a mimic board. I would only go to the expense of using accessory decoders if you were contemplating computer control.

Richard

A little point to mention here. I also have a Lenz system which is slightly earlier then yours. I have the set 01, but apart from some extras, I started off with a Compact. The set 01 hand controller is the same as you have. However, the Compact is a very much simplified controller and for point control would be ideal. I often found myself using the Compact instead of the set 01 or 02 hand controllers I have (Unless I wanted to do anything more complicated). If anything is there take a look on youtube to see how easy the Compact is witn point control. While I do admit to not using DCC for the control of points, so I have not actually used it for this use, the Compact would be ideal. You will need the link lead to use it as a slave controller to your set 100.
With secondhand Compacts being so cheap to buy you can't go wrong. As far as I know all the versions of the Compact should work with your set 100, though do a quick check. Compact only supports two figure loco addresses so when using it you can't use four figure addresses for your locos. Other then that it should be fine and give you a cheap extra slave controller. (Very easy to program it to work as a slave).

Paul, contrary to popular belief, there is life outside DCC. Many of us , still take considerable pleasure from DC. Locos, have to run perfectly before you even consider, adding decoders. What i did, was to buy a starter DCC package, leaving all my 100 DC locos as were, and still are. If you find it, addictive, then you can make a decision, at that point.

Thanks for your views guys!
I have to make a decision before the layout is built, which is going to be done by a third party, as my experience in the past tells me I do not have the necessary skills. So do not have an existing layout to try DCC on, or room to build a trial layout that will give me a realistic picture of how my built layout might perform.
It might be that DCC is the way as it will allow eventually automatic control of the fiddle yard roads where sometimes 3 trains will queue one behind the other.
Cheers
Paul