Model Railway Forum

Good Afternoon one and all,

After a couple of days in which nothing concrete seemed to be achieved on the modelling front, I am pleased to say that I have made some progress today.
While I didn't make much progress with completing a task I had penciled in for yesterday, namely, progressing the models in my first box of part made kits, I did manage to go through it and mark up cards for each listing what needs to be done and what parts are needed.
So next time I get to that box I wont waste half a morning sorting out what needs doing on the models I can get straight on with modelling-leastways, that's the theory!

Today, I wanted to write up to post the second part of the list of trains on the Wycombe branch. Reading through what I had written in the first part something struck me as not quite right:-

I had suggested that the morning pick up goods to Thomas and Greens Paper Mill could be 5 open goods wagons. Thinking about it, I don't think that is right because what would have been loaded onto them at the mill?

So I got out my copy of the "Marlow Branch", and this suggests that the railway carried the following materials in and out of the Mill:-
Inbound:-
Coal (daily?)
Esparto Grass (periodically), some 25 sheeted wagons from Brentford Docks
Caustic Soda (tank)- again periodically

Outbound:-
Paper (boxed, in vans) - the main product was writing paper.
Coal empties
Open wagon empties
Caustic Soda Tanker - empty.

So now I need to research paper production to see what else was used on a regular basis.
It seems the coal and the resulting empties were handled by the evening Hinksey- Slough goods (I expect the empties returned north on the morning Slough to Hinksey?).
It therefore looks like the regulars for the local pick up would be vans.

Looking at what was handled at Bourne End Yard, so might be on this train, I noticed there were occasional handlings of boats.
So provided I can track down (and model!!) the right sort of boat, this would make an interesting load perhaps on a bogie well wagon?

Think I will raise the two items above as Prototype Questions and see what folk have to say?

Hope you are all well and staying safe
Best regards
Paul

Afternoon all,
My question on the prototype side has yielded some info on the inbound to the Paper Mills.

One item that I knew, but must have wrongly filed in the memory banks (forgotten!) was China Clay! so some china clay wagons can be added. The other addition is Chlorine, but as this and the Caustic Soda may have come from the north west, they could have arrived via High Wycombe.

Not much joy re the boats except a short video of small sailing boats on the Thames at Bourne End in the 20s, so will pursue that further.

So this brings me to a further episode of lineside observation in 1960/2 at the High Wycombe branch:-
In the previous episode, we got to lunch time. So having eaten our corn beef sanies,, downed our Tiza, and munched on an apple it is time for the first afternoon service, soon after 1pm.

This comprises the Class 121 car that we saw making a round trip with its trailer in the morning, but this time on it s own.

After this completes a couple of round trips to Bourne End it is time for the return of the Thomas and Green pick up freight.. The 57xx has found some empty box vans (too dirty inside for the Mill's paper, so returning to various places, then china clay wagons, which will go back west to Cornwall and then some more vans, these being clean inside, are full of boxed writing paper.
The train grinds to a halt in front of us, to allow the 57xx to come off and be swapped with another 57xx that arrived from Slough at 0930 in the morning and then shunted the yard until now.
The freight is soon on its way again to Taplow.

Just after 3pm the Class121 sets out again, this time heading through to High Wycombe and Aylesbury, with a GUV in tow. It will be nearly 6pm before we see it return.

There is another space in activity now until at 345 we hear the strenuous noise of a hard working tank engine. Around the bend from the main line appears a 57xx which has spent the morning at Taplow preparing this train. It is the Loudwater goods, the second of the branches daily pick up goods.
With a wide mix of opens, vans, tanks, and cattle wagons it conveys stock that has been dropped at Taplow off of the morning down freights from the London area.

After only another 10 minutes a freight appears from the opposite direction. This is hauled by a 61xx and started from Hinksey Yard south of Oxford at 9,25, This differs from the Loudwater train in having a fair number of empty and full coal wagons.

After this flurry of freight activity, we are surprised to see (and hear!) a LMR Class 5 approaching from the mainline with 5 Midland region coaches in tow. We realise this must be one of the many summer excursions to the area. Although the coaches are empty, it is likely that the day trippers have been deposited at Winsor and will later take a boat trip up the Thames to rejoin their train at Marlow for the journey home.
There are many of these trips on Saturdays but this weekday one is probably due to the factories in the area that the train came from being on their summer 2 week shut down.

All is then quiet for the next hour or so. Then the first of the evening passenger trains appears, This is a 3 coach suburban set hauled by a 61xx which we recognize as having arrived from Aylesbury in the morning. It has spent the intervening time in the Branch siding.

After another half an hour we hear the distant growl of a DMU and the 121 appears from the Aylesbury direction towing a GUV, but not the one it left with earlier in the afternoon.
That has been left to be loaded at Aylesbury and replaced by one taken up the branch on the morning Parcels from Reading which has been loaded during the day.

Reluctantly we leave the line side now to cycle home for tea, but perhaps with the long daylight evenings we will manage to spend the evening of another day beside the branch.

I hope the above has entertained you and reminded you of past youthful pleasures?
Take care and stay safe,
Best regards
Paul

Good Day one and all,
I thought today I would entertain (?) you with the workings of shunting engines at Lower Thames Yard.

On the face of it, there was a shunter around from 0930 until 2200, What is not apparent until you delve into the detail is that this period was covered by three different engines.
The first arrived LE from Slough around 0930. Theoretically, it was supposed to be a passenger shunter until 12.00 and then a goods shunter until 14.30. It then swapped with the engine that came off the Branch with the early afternoon Thomas and Green to Taplow pick up goods.
I am guessing that the splitting of the 5 hours 50% passenger, 50% goods was an accountants device to split the cost of the shunter between the two activities.

In reality there was not much passenger shunting to do between 0930 and 12.00, after any parcels vans off the 0645 Paddington to Reading Parcels, which was in the yard from 0924 to 0940, had been positioned.
The Formations book for this train does not show any put off or pick up from Maidenhead as a regular feature, but I apply Rule 1 here!

Included in the passenger shunting will be to move the two fish vans that arrived just before 0800 on the Oxford to Slough Fish and Parcels train from the siding beside the coal siding to the open platform beside the Goods Shed for unloading.
However, the section on the Maidenhead Pilot in the article on Maidenhead in GWRJ 36 shows that the occasional passenger shunt was interspersed with mainly goods shunting.

Around mid morning I send the shunter round the down relief to mimic the shunting of the west end of the real yard.
In my yard all the engine has to do is move the loaded coal wagons that are sitting in the coal siding (which is hidden behind the row of houses between the Branch and the circuit of the relief lines) into the branch fiddle yard and place them in the empty one of the two sidings that lie between the branch line and the connection from the branch fiddle yard to the up relief line. The engine then collects the empty coal wagons from the siding next to the one it has placed the loaded wagons into and positions them to replace the loaded coal wagons in the coal siding.
The shunter may then perform other shunting in the Branch fiddle yard before returning to the junction via the up relief line.
Whether it performs shunting in the branch fiddle yard or not depends on whether I decide to have a shunter full time in that yard.

Next the shunter will move via the branch platform and the neck of the branch siding to the Goods Shed to position and collect vans.
This is necessary because there is not room for the Goods Shed to be in its correct position between the coal siding and the up relief loop, so I have repositioned it nearer the station, with road access from the station approach road.
Included in the van shunting will be to move the two fish vans from being unloaded near the Goods Shed to the up Relief Loop siding to await collection by a down goods.that arrived just before
The disadvantages operationally of the Goods Shed's position is that it is single ended and rail access is limited when a set of coaches are in the branch Siding from c0910 to c1710.

I am considering storing the coaches in the lengthened (compared to reality) down relief siding off of the down relief loop, but I currently planning to store the class 121 DMU and its trailer car there from 0940 to 1240 and also any wagons dropped off by down freights.
A compromise may be to swap the 121 and trailer with the coaches for storage because the 121 and trailer will occupy less room in the Branch Siding for less time than the coaches do, although the trailer would stay in the siding until c 1840!

Another advantage of the change of storage location for the coaches is that whereas it is reasonable to say that the 61xx that bought them in from Aylesbury could back them into the Branch Siding before disappearing to Slough; moving them from the Branch Platform across the up and down relief lines into the siding off the down relief loop, is a more involved and time consuming movement, more suited to a shunting engine!
Also on Mondays the train bought 2 second coaches and a Brake composite from High Wycombe. This would be too much to add to our 3 coach branch train, but I will add the brake composite and make it run every day!
This brake composite is to be held until 1444 to be added to the 1155 Oxford to Paddington Parcels, which we will pick up with later!

A better solution might be that the 61xx continues to back the coaches into the Branch Siding and that the shunting engine pick them up from there later to move them to the Down Relief Loop siding, bearing in mind that the branch junction is busy with the DMU returning to the Branch Platform at 0922, and the LE off the Reading to Princes Risborough passes the same way around 0943; while when it arrives at 0930, the shunting engine is occupied with the Down Parcels until after 0940!

Further small amounts of passenger shunting occur just before 1200 when the up 1122 Reading to Paddington Parcels calls between 11.44 and 11.50, and just after 1200 when the Paddington to Didcot parcels calls from 1207 to 1212, both of which I plan to involve the dropping of and picking up of one parcels van.

At 1432 the Thomas and Green Pick up goods arrives off the Branch. The train pauses for 8 minutes while its engine is uncoupled and swapped for the shunting engine. I am thinking of having this action undertaken while the train is still on the branch held and protected by signals.
While this is attractive because the action occurs in full view rather than hidden behind the station buildings, I need to look at the signaling to see what would need to be changed to allow this. I think I would need a calling on signal on the Up Branch Bracket signal, to allow the train engine to move forward off the train, but I am not sure how the shunter would be authorized to back onto the train?
Anyway, at 1440 the goods moves through the Branch Platform on to Taplow, and the original train engine moves into the yard.

As soon as the now shunting engine is out of the way the 1155 Oxford to Paddington Parcels which had detached a rear van in the Up Relief Loop while there from 1425 to 1442, moves into the station to load small parcels leaving finally at 1450 after the shunting engine adds the Brake Composite from a siding onto the Parcels train, then fetches the dropped parcel Van.

I think we will leave the shunter now while the driver and fireman take a breather and have a well earnt cuppa!
(think that's my cue for one as well.)

Stay safe, keep smiling, and enjoy your modelling!
Best regards
Paul

H there one and all,
Today, there is just time for a follow up to yesterday’s Shunting Engine Saga!

You may have wondered why I talked about goods shunting, but didn't give any details of the dropping of freight wagons from trains, or picking of wagons up?
There are two reasons:-
1) The real life reason, that most of the freights that dropped off or picked up wagons at Maidenhead did so during the hours of darkness, when there was no shunting engine on duty.
So the last duty of the last shunting engine before retiring to Slough Shed c2200 was to position the cuts of wagons to be picked up by the visiting night trains, and to clear siding space for them to drop off any of their wagons ready for the first shunting engine to deal with in the morning.

2) The modelling reason is as follows:-
You can see from the above that each visiting train needs two spaces:- one to drop off its wagons, and one containing the wagons it is to pick up. It is possible to do two trains with two sidings if they are long enough, but more trains picking up and dropping off start to require a lot of siding space. So my modelling problem is lack of siding space!

I have decided to use a standard "cut" size of equivalent to 5 standard wagons. They will not look "standardized" as some will have 4 wagons and some only 3 because they are using longer wagons!
While the real railway was generally much less limited in train length, I can only really cope with the equivalent of 15 standard wagons per train in my fiddle yards. Of course a "cut" could be any thing from one wagon upwards!

There are really only two sidings in Lower Thames Yard that are long enough to hold two cuts of 5 wagons, one on the up side between the up Relief loop and the coal siding, and one on the down side off the down Relief loop.

Also I am organizing things so that there are only three up and three down overnight visiting trains. One up train picks up only, the next drops off only, and the third one drops off and picks up. Similarly with the down trains, the first picks up only, the next drops off only and the third both picks up and drops off wagons.

Thus the shunting engine positions two up and two down cuts each evening and each morning has three up and three down cuts to shunt!
In real life there were in 24 hours 6 up freight trains that called at Maidenhead, one of which was the late night from Aylesbury which picked up coal empties from the coal siding and replaced them with full coal wagons.
This shunt can be done using the branch, so can be excluded from the relief line pick up and drop off of wagons.

In the down direction there were 5 freights that called. So I will be representing 5 trains by 3, but the number of freight trains needed can be reduced further because some ran in the hours midnight to 4 am during which I am choosing not to run trains!
One up train will arrive at 2355 as the 2240 class 9 Reading West to Southall (due away from Maidenhead at 0100!) and depart in the next running session at 0612 as the 0415 Class 9 Reading West to OOC (actually due into Maidenhead at 0512!).

I will fill in more detail about the freight drop off and pick ups when I get to finish the shunting engine saga.

Stay safe, keep smiling, and don't forget to get your daily modelling session in!
Best regards
Paul

Good Day All,
So I thought that today I would fill in the detail on the Freight drop offs and pickups at Lower Thames Yard.
As explained previously, I am planning that a freight that arrives in an evening running session at 2355 will stay in the up Relief Loop until 0606 in the next running session, which is a morning session. Really as this session starts at 0400 the freight should not arrive until 0512, but this will have to be a rule 1 situation I am afraid! This train will both drop a cut of wagons and pick one up.

The alternative would be to run the 2355 from the evening session early so as to have it leave before midnight. I decided against this as I have already moved the 0014 to 0040 stay of the Aylesbury freight to an hour earlier because I wanted to portray the dropping off of coal wagons and collection of empties by this train. So moving the two trains earlier I decided was too unrealistic particularly as they would both then be in the scenic area together, which would stretch my limited sidings, although they were in real life, in Maidenhead together after midnight, but with the benefit of the real siding space!

There is one more up freight that I am ignoring because it was in the yard from 0130 to 0145, during my 1200-0400 shutdown. Also, although a class 8, it only stopped to let another train pass.

So the next stopping up freight is another class 9 this time the 1115 from Moreton Cutting to Slough, due in at 1224, staying until1239, and just picking up a cut of wagons.

No more freights call until the 1600 Class 9 Reading to OOC arrives at 1725 and stays until 1838 while dropping of a cut of wagons.

Meanwhile on the down side, I am delaying by an hour the first caller of the day the 0215 Class 9 from Southall to Reading West Junction which arrives at 0325 and leaves at 0358. So this will arrive at 0425 and leave at 0458. This train will drop a cut of wagons and also pick one.
The next down train is 0320 Class 9 from Acton to Reading West Junction. This is timetabled to arrive at 0506 and leave at 0540. It is a little unrealistic to run this to time meaning it arrives only 8 minutes after the previous train leaves, so I am delaying it to arrive at 0526, but, as there is a lot of up activity around 0600, I am only delaying its departure by 5 minutes to 0545. This train will just pick up a cut of wagons.

The final freight of the morning will run to time and represent the 0700 Class 9 Slough to Reading west Junction, arriving at 0814 and leaving at 0830 after dropping off a cut of wagons.

There is only one other down freight calling in the day and that is another Class 9 Slough to Reading West Junction, this time the 1900. This arrives at 1938 and leaves at 2000. It picks up a cut of wagons and drops one off. I am considering delaying this train by an hour so that the 2010 Parcels from Maidenhead to Reading can leave before it, which would also allow the Parcels to be made up in the Down Relief Loop which this train would also need to use!

The above set of train timings illustrates that there is quite a lot of goods shunting to be done when the shunter first arrives in the morning , and before it leaves in the evening, but that through much of the day the shunting is just for positioning wagons for loading or unloading.

So in the morning the following cuts await the shunter:-
A) Up side
1) cut off the 2355

B) Down side
1) cut off the 0315
2) cut off the 0700

And in the evening the following cuts must be left:-
A) Up side
1) cut for the 2355 (leaving 0606)

B) Down side
1) cut for the 0315 (arriving at 0425)
2) cut for the 0340 (arriving at 0526)

Next post I will integrate these plus the daytime cuts to be collected and being dropped into the shunters routine.

Hope everyone is well, is staying safe, and those in the uk are not too upset by the lockdown extension?
Best regards
Paul

Good afternoon all,

Change of subject today as Thursday's decision by the UK Government to extend lockup - oops meant lockdown (not unexpected!!) means a further 3 weeks delay on Lower Thames Yard build.

So in order to get something moving, as I am fed up with not having anything to "play" with, I am starting to plan the conversion of my 4ft x2ft 6ins test track into a single track round and round layout.
The trick is going to be to do something that is near to Lower Thames Yard location wise to use some of the stuff acquired for that.
Might play around with one end of Cookham?

Anyway, as always, will update you on thoughts and progress and welcome any input!
Also I must keep main project planning simmering in the background!

Hope you are all staying safe and keeping amused?
Best regards
Paul

• Hi All,
• I am pleased to report that my thinking has moved on since yesterday!
• Firstly, checking the size of the "test track" board I realized that the 4ft x 2ft 6in dimensions I quoted yesterday was not the size of the board, but the size of the old desk that it sits on!
•
• So space is not (quite) so restricted as I first thought.

• Secondly, having played around with the layouts of all the intermediate stations on the Maidenhead to High Wycombe branch, none quite fitted.
• However, last night while thinking out something entirely non railway related I had a brainwave!
•
• So I have now started to look at the detail for what I am calling "Lower Thames Goods Shed".
•
• This has a viewing position across the Branch from that described some days ago when detailing the trains on the branch in 1960/2.
• Thus I am standing on the base of the old Maidenhead Middle Signal Box. I can see the branch tracks left and right, the Branch siding to the left, and kicking back off of it to the right the siding I had put into "Lower Thames Yard" for the repositioned Goods Shed.
• Also to the left on my side of the branch line track is a short siding that in "Lower Thames Yard" leads to a pair of sidings for coal wagons and wagons dropped off of up goods trains, but here is just long enough to hold a few wagons or maybe a parcels van. To my right is the station and the ends of platforms 4 /5 but platform 4 only has a line that connects to the branch line, there is no up (or down) relief line.
•
• Compromises will be several:-
• Trains can only be tank engine plus 2 or 2.5 coaches long, freights 5/6 wagons.
• Curves will be second radius.
• Although DCC can be used, the points will be manual as will signals.
•
• Positives are that this layout will enable me to make a start on the goods shed. I think that will be in two halves so that the longer shed for "Lower Thames Yard" can be constructed by inserting a middle section.
• I can also start on the Plat form 5 (Branch platform) overall roof, although this will probably need altering on the larger layout!
• And I can also build one or two other buildings that can serve on both layouts.
•
• Most of all, of course, the big Positive, I can get to run some trains not just engines under test!!
•
• Thus I am feeling positive about this idea, and if the weather stays good, later this coming week, I hope to make a start!
• However, I mustn't get ahead of my self, there needs to be some further planning and some drawing first.
•
• I hope your models are all proceeding well, and that you are all safe and well?
• Best regards
• Paul

You need to get things started. A mate of mine had plans to build a model of the branch line to Ilfracombe. He wrote things down, read things, ordered kits for the locos and rolling stock that used the line, bought the stuff needed to make track and points, you name it he did it. That is except build any of it. He spent so much time faffing about he ran out of time.

Walkingthedog wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:33 pm You need to get things started. A mate of mine had plans to build a model of the branch line to Ilfracombe. He wrote things down, read things, ordered kits for the locos and rolling stock that used the line, bought the stuff needed to make track and points, you name it he did it. That is except build any of it. He spent so much time faffing about he ran out of time.

Sometimes I feel I do the same - but, I hope, I've not run out of time yet! One never knows in the current environment when that will happen.

I have, with considerable assistance from my friends, made some progress. Unfortunately visits are no longer possible so some tasks at which my friends excel are having to wait.

Walkingthedog wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:33 pm You need to get things started. A mate of mine had plans to build a model of the branch line to Ilfracombe. He wrote things down, read things, ordered kits for the locos and rolling stock that used the line, bought the stuff needed to make track and points, you name it he did it. That is except build any of it. He spent so much time faffing about he ran out of time.

I don't think, having the seeds of an idea yesterday, and planning to get started by the end of this week is faffing around?
With small spaces, if you start laying track without any idea of how its all going to finish up IMHO you stand a good chance of wasting a lot more time trying to sort out things like too sharp curves, and coaches not passing on them than if you check before you do too much to alter things without starting again!!
But what do I know??

Cheers
Paul